The GeoDomain Expo Highlights

Posted by Steve under General on Wednesday, July 16th, 2008 10:09 am

I was going to write a review of the GeoDomain Expo today. After all, this blog is dedicated to the geo domain industry and it is maybe expected. I thought about this for a while and came to a conclusion. I could give you my perspective of the show, but I think many would think of it as a biased review. So I have decided that the best review for the GeoDomain Expo is one from those who attended IMO.

This will help others see the true value of this show without anyone thinking of there being a hidden agenda. I am more than sure next year’s event will be an even more memorable event as this industry continues to grow 10 fold. The truth is always in the pudding and I believe the opinions of attendees will deliver the value of the GeoDomain Expo this year in Chicago. Here are a few comments from a GeoDomainer.com discussion group. I would like to ask those who attended to share their thoughts good or bad on the GeoDomain Expo here as well for historical purposes. This includes those who were sponsors of the event.

Shaun Pilfold

As a veteran of many domain related shows (17+), I can say this was one of the best shows I have ever attended. I found the three days of seminars relevant, engaging and thought provoking. Even outside of the seminars, the veteran players in this industry were very open to sharing, discussing and suggesting ideas and concepts that can help anyone that wants to be successful in this industry.

Thanks to all that made this show a joy to attend and has got me pumped to get our team working on some of the many new ideas (too us) that came from the show. It was great to meet many of the established and new players to this wonder that is the Geo space!

Tim Davids

Words can’t describe how cool the show was…meeting everyone and hearing the stories was super motivating…I am pumped up to work by “butt” off developing the domains I have and to get CharlotteAmalie.com up and running and into Associated cities/geos.

“Next year” seems so far away

Jason Mathews

Had an awesome time at the event and it was worth every penny! Getting to meet so many geo domainers face to face was great and people were so open with sharing information. Although I’m new to the industry everyone including even the Castellos and Dan Pulcrano were very receptive and approachable. Like others have said, I too can’t wait for next years event. The decision to attend this event was probably one of the best professional decisions I’ve made in my life.

One pearl of wisdom I took away is that you have to build your geo domain to fulfill the needs of that particular community but you should also not be afraid to add a part of your personal touch/personality. And you gotta have passion for the geo you are developing if you want to really unlock the full potential.

My only regret is that I didn’t get to meet everyone at the event, so many geodomainers, so little time! Definitely, need an event directory next time.

PS the W was a great location too, great food and atmosphere

Kevin M.

My take on this event is that it was absolutely great!! I totally enjoyed this show, and felt it was a great networking experience. Everyone there was so friendly, approachable, and outright supportive to each other! There was no ‘cast system’ of attendees. There was so much positive energy there, and such a camaraderie amoungst all. Very glad I went.

Mike, thanks for the great hospitality, openness, knowledge etc., you, your brother and everyone shared with us all. (Hope you slept better the last two nites there!) Steve, thanks to you too for your friendship and efforts on this making the show a great experience!

Brian Null

1) It was a very good conference

2) Michael, it was nice to finally meet you

3) What some of us ‘new kids’ noticed is that folks in the Geo Domain space are very willing to share information on how they approach business development on their properties. As someone relatively new to the Geo space, it is greatly appreciated.

Niko Younts

There is no question in my mind it was worth the money, time, energy and travel. This particular Expo was *very well organized and I wish I would’ve had more time during the days to network.

The city of Chicago, and the “W” was a great combo, setting the stage for a memorable weekend.

Of course with good news–always comes some bad.

Although my hat goes off to EACH and EVERY successful pioneer, investor, developer etc, within the GEO .COM space, the EXPO was 1000% geared specifically toward .com ownership and development. The term “Geo” from “Thurs-Sat” meant “.COM”, at least in Chicago.

Geo owners from around the world who attended (in my opinion)–were silenced, many of which whom share the same beliefs as myself–who were discouraged by the lack of alternative discussions. The .de, .ca, .TV, .net owners were basically along for the ride–without a voice.

The best “technology” award was given to the wrong party. Although Boston.TV was not present, there is NO QUESTION–they deserve this award. Many and most .com GEO domains have NO video at all, let alone a world-class video-driven multi-media platform. 57% of the USA watches video online, and more importantly it is a 10 BILLION dollar industry that for some odd reason, people are ignoring. LX.TV sells for $10+ million–and more BILLION dollar companies embrace and develop GEO .TV domains, and yet, NOT ONE SINGLE word of the DOT TV space was ever mentioned.

Instances like this–where no answer will suffice, proves hidden agendas across the board. Surely you can continue being successful with long pages of text, static ads and selling on historical traffic reports, but the reality is–things change and with time, education and development, everyone in that room will have wished they would’ve been more proactive and had a little less “tunnel vision”.

The largest misperception on the planet earth–is that in order to be successful you NEED the .com version. This couldn’t be further from the reality, especially with GEO domains, and moreso with .TV.

This IS BY NO MEANS a personal attack on anyone–and I actually enjoyed EVERY single person at the EXPO. I have NOTHING against anyone in particular, just trying to establish a “reasonable ground” of REALITY.

39 Responses to “The GeoDomain Expo Highlights”

David J Castello Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Niko:

I’m glad you’re such a vociferous proponent of dotTV. We need more people like you in the business. However, I did compare Boston.tv to NewYorkCity.com and I still would have voted for NewYorkCity.com in the Technology department. Boston.tv is built around one basic platform - video. On the other hand, NewYorkCity.com is technologically multi-tiered across the board and presents a much more rounded GeoDomain.

The first round of nominations for the Geo Awards was completely open to the public. In other words, ANYONE could have nominated ANY GeoDomain regardless of TLD. There were hundreds of nominations and it was promoted heavily throughout the blogs and news sites such as DNJournal. After the voting was closed, I asked for a breakdown of non-dotCom nominations.

There was only ONE vote for dotTV.
Francois Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I found this post annoying.

In fact it’s like all the posts I have read these days about the Geo Domain Expo.
It’s a lost of time, one don’t learn anything!
“It was great, everyone was friendly and next time it will be bigger!”
Once you have read this you have read all the posts about this conference in the blogosphere.
Hummm! It’s very frustrating.
And it’s not a comment against Steve that I appreciate nor the conference that I helped advertising it for free in Domaining.com
I will enjoy read stories that happend there, some little secrets exchanged, great tips discussed, … see photos, …
I only read EMPTY and see NOTHING.

PS: I like Niko comments because at least he speaks!

**SMO**

Francois,

Completely agree with you. I will be discussing improvements for next year’s show soon. It is up to the blog posters to communicate to reveal exactly what you have stated. As you can see, I am trying to draw this out of them with this post.

Hopefully it will come out. I will share a few things, as discussions continue on the post. The good thing is I think AG will release a DVD of the event for purchasing in the coming months for those who could not attend.

Thanks again for your complete honesty.
Brian Berke Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
David,

Was sorry I missed the conference being on the East Coast. Lets be honest. Why would a Geo Conference supported by Associated Cities take the time to promote an alternative in the Geo Domain space that is being embraced by several billion dollar media companies???

Answer: its not going to happen.

You know I respect you, but the truth is, .TV will be hyped in its own way soon. It will be a key part of many huge entertainment media expos in the future that focus on delivering exciting dynamic content on the web.

This will never happen at the associated cities Geo Expo PERIOD. At best you have have an alt forum for other TLD’s, where it may get mentioned clumped together with all alt TLD’s.

Meanwhile, all the .com Geo owners are talking about how foolish these same media companies are for not embracing .com.

Anyone see what’s wrong with this picture??

To me seeing .tv promoted at the associated cities Geo Expo would be like seeing Miller Beer being pushed at the Budweiser annual shareholders meeting.
Michael Castello Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Francois, I believe Steve pulled from personal comments to me and others from a member forum. No one here was trying to make general comments to the public. They were more friendly gestures to one another.

**Michael**

Francois, is not only talking about this site, but many of the others that covered this event. In all honesty, no one has outlined what they learned at the Expo. However, this has never been done from any of the shows. The only way to truly get the lowdown completely is to attend the GeoDomain Expo in person. Next year is just around the corner. Additionally, the forum was not a personal one, it was in a public discussion group started by Debbie. If I offended anyone, I apologize.
NY Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
David:

Thank you for your kind words, I sincerely appreciate it. It was a pleasure meeting you and your brother as well, and my hat certainly comes off to your continued successes.

Make no mistake about it, NYC.com (NewYorkCity.com) is a great site, very thorough and informative. So, maybe you’re correct, they deserve the “technology” award, as it may fit the mold, however, which award would Boston.TV deserve?

The domain name industry will slowly but surely shift, as it really has no choice but to cater to “new age media and technologies”.

99% of ALL geo sites are ALL text, with little or no video integration and development. Being that 57% of all Internet users view video online, and the fact it is a 10 BILLION dollar industry (U.S. video ad space), it is very safe to say the opportunities exist FAR beyond a static page with miles of text/banners.

I am in NO way, shape or form, discrediting the successes and achievements of Geo .com owners, investors, and developers–not at all. I AM however, pointing at the bright red lights flashing, that read; “WAKE UP”.

Certain Geo .com owners continue to speak negatively about the print and broadcast business for not acquiring/partnering with their .com properties. Well, during the entire conference, (a GEO EXPO), somehow, not a single alternative/viable option was discussed.

Speaking of the print/broadcast companies, it is very evident, although they missed the .com age, they are surely prepared for the future of the Internet and TV.

Million and BILLION dollar companies, using GEODOMAINS, that DO NOT care about the .com model, period.

Spokane.TV, Macon.TV, Nebraska.TV…just a few examples.

On the dot com side, it is safe to say Nebraska.com would sell for several hundred thousand dollars–if not higher and close to 7 figures. Macon.com and Spokane.com are smaller cities but would still pull in six figures. Point being, these companies are “TV” and thus, have stategically acquired “TV” domain names. Much, much more of this to come. So let me ask the TRILLION dollar international question. Even though these companies are catering more to the NEWS and LOCAL, (missing out on some travel ad dollars), the point is–they DO NOT NEED THE .com domain or it’s built in traffic. These companies have the ability to partner, buy traffic, and most effectively EVERY morning, afternoon and evening, the famous, “check us out online at…www.Nebraska.TV, etc), where MILLIONS of people watch the news. Boston.TV, is yet another angle. They are LOCAL, LOCAL, LOCAL. NO text, ALL video. It’s truly a gateway to the next generation of entertainment. It is a FACT that truly can not be respectfully argued or dismissed. YouTube sold for $1.65 BILLION dollars–with ZERO text. DOT TV lends itself pure, and plain and simple, to the FUTURE of the internet, and the FUTURE is NOW. In the past 16 months, every single dot com GEO owner could’ve purchased their respected cities for x,xxx and xx,xxx. Now, it simply is not the case. Many owners have xxx,xxx reserves and some even 7 figures. Think about it–this is NOT about DOMAINING and PPC. It is about development and the BILLION dollar companies that are seeking a new brand. It will be interesting to see more companies–skipping the million dollar asking price of these .com cities and head straight toward the .TV domain.

So at the end of the day, although I am a dot tv investor, I do plan to develop at some point in the near future. The reality however, I see no urgent rush. The values are increasing every single day–from other developments, while I continue to invest behind the scenes. Vegas.TV sells for $350,000 and no one speaks of this news…? Interesting. Weather.com sells, but no one mentions the reality how important Weather.TV was to the deal. Very similar to iReport.com ($750,000), iReport.TV would’ve been a deal breaker, had they not been able to acquire it.

Competition is here, finally. People can not run from it. Even if the GEO .com sites edit their model/platform–(which they ALL will), it still is not the same as the GEO .TV for the specific content delivery.

Business 101 = acquire what you still can in stealth mode…to either a) develop OR b) protect your brand, because the truth is within the underlying facts. Whether another web entrepreneur comes along with a video crew and creative team, or a local, traditional media company claims the stakes–either way, the market share–for the first time EVER, is now up for grabs.

LinTV, Landmark, Pappas, Hearst, etc…”follow the money”…

ONLY my personal opinions.

Ps: Steve, AC, and the entire organization did a great job in making this conference happen–but it truly was not a Geo EXPO, it was a .COM GEO EXPO. I truly do feel bad for the people who are seeking factual and informative research/education/information–as it truly is being delivered within a 50% reality of what is actually developing right before our eyes.

NY
Rob Sequin Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 13:18 pm
Great post. Interesting that it turned into a .tv discussion. Where’s the .net .us and cctld crowd?

I like .tv so I’ll jump in and say that.

However, in defense of the GeoExpo and AC, it is a .com organization and always has been. This format keeps the members united yet separated from each other.

Therefore, you have the wild success of AC and the geoexpo.

For example, I own Cuba.tv and (we all know now ) Skip Hoagland owns Cuba.com.

No matter how great Cuba.tv might become, I couldn’t get into AC because it would conflict with an existing member’s site.

So, my message to all non .com geodomainers, try to put together a sister AC organization or perhaps a sub group of AC.

I think there would be demand for such an organization that would allow

city doctors.com

city .tv

iCity .com

and the like but, those cannot be included in AC because of the successful business model already in place.

I am not a member of AC but hope to when the time is right.

I would like to join an organization or sub group as mentioned above if anyone wants to be the champion of it.
David J Castello Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 13:20 pm
There’s a HUGE misconception that I want to correct.

The Geo Expo is open to ALL Geodomains regardless of TLD. It is sponsored by the city.com members of Associated Cities. And the reason it is sponsored by AC is because they’ve been the only people to put their money where there mouth is.

I have no problem with dotTV or any other Geodomain TLD doing well and tooting their horn athe the Expo. Absolutely none, but there is one thing I’d like to ask you pro dotTV guys:

What is up with the ridiculous dotTV renewal fees?

An excellent dotTV Geo came up for bid at the Moniker Geo Auction. I patiently waited to be stampeded by a herd of pro dotTV buyers, but instead found myself brushing off crickets. A very well known owner of a major parking company came up beside me and whispered in my ear, “Suckerbait.” When I asked him why, he told me to look closely at the yearly renewal rate posted on the board for the dotTV. It said, “Renewal fee is $800 a year.”

EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS A YEAR???
Brian Berke Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 17:09 pm
David,

Not sure what you mean about the fees? They are a great thing in my book and have given me a tremendous opportunity because “domainers” do not understand how to incorporate them in terms of real world business and brand value.

I pay $500 for PalmSprings.tv, so far my out of pocket cost on the domain is 1K total. Talk about a great bang for your buck for the value. I turned down a 5K offer 3 months after I bought it. Once developed, that is a small price to pay for a marketing expense. We are talking about $500 a year when you yourself turned down 5 mil for the .com? In other words, dot tv is a different model. It is a developers extension, not a “domainers” TLD. That left the door open

My background is in the entertainment industry creating content. I bought my Geos to develop not park. Therefore .TV is perfect for the Geo space. When I talked to the real estate agents I will be using for SantaMonica.tv, they did not care about traffic. They cared about the brand value, and the meaning of that brand value and the fact that they can be apart of this revolutionary TV station for their city and have their own shows and use it to sell homes.

Same thing from some feelers I have gotten in Palm Springs. David are you telling me that PalmSprings.tv is not worth $500 per year? That Houston.tv is not worth $500 per year? That SantaMonica.tv is not worth $500 per year? Heck I think if you can develop and have the know how to create content and market and brand yourself that PalmSprings.tv would be worth 25K per year easy for the power of that brand and what it means. It is a business expense nothing more. That is real world business.

Yes if you are a domainer who wants to hold these names for 20 years and do nothing then you need to be very careful. But I will tell you in the geo space many domains that cost 1K per year have exchanged hands for big profits that have gone unreported becasue the value of this real estate is shotting up, developed or not. These names are worth millions on the .com side and major media companies are flocking to them.

In effect, we all agree that PPC is not the way to go for Geos, so that means you need to develop. If you develop the yearly reg fee is a write off. So you tell me? How of much a steal are these names if you can develop. I mean come on, the major News Stations I have talked to could care less if the name is $1 per year or 100K, they instantly get the brand value.

Many other .TV’s I have a reg fee $25 per year including names like FortWorth.tv WindyCity.tv MalbuBeach.tv and many many more.

So yes .TV have a premium, but that has gotten them in the hands of developers who will push the TLD, not horded by domainers who set up parking pages. This is a good thing for .TV Media companies gladly pay 500-10K per year in some cases more becasue they have a viable alternative that means something. How much would these cost as .coms? 7 figures in many cases. They no longer need to pay those pricers and are proving they can create viable web 2.0 sites and beyond for a fraction of the cost. Wht pay 10 mil for an antiquated name when you can pay 10K per year and do what Nebraska.tv is doing to Nebraska.com ?

Do the Math.

I gladly pay $300 per year for Webcasting.tv and $750 per year for DVR.tv.

If your know marketing budgets and real world business those are very small prices to pay for very powerful brands.

By the way other Geo .tvs that have no premium (not mine) include

LasAngeles.tv
NewYork.tv
KeyWest.tv
Vegas.tv
Detroit.tv
SaltlakeCity.tv
Denver.tv
NewHampshire.tv

and many many more becasue these were reged early on or in some cases the premium fees have been bought down via multi year lock ins. So it is incorrect to assume all great name have premiums.

Personally I would much rather pay 5K per year for a great Geo then 500K for one with no premium becasue I no I can use those funds to scale the business and write off the cost of the premium. Once again a small price to pay for doing business.

These names carry huge credibility with businesses in these communities. I have seen it first hand. Nobody cares when the come to the site if there is a premium. They care about you meeting expectations and providing dynamic content.

I am thankful for the premium system becasue if it was not there, I never would have gotten many of my best Geos. These names would be long gone and unattainable.

Think about it this way. If .TV came on the market today the same way .mobi was launched. All auctions, and no premiums, the land rush would be insane.

So yes these premiums turn off domains who have no ability and plan develop a real world business with on point video content. This I can agree on.
NY Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 18:16 pm
…Wow.

Now this is a very surprising reply David and not very impressed. Coming directly from the mouth of the man who signs “we make a million dollars a year off the front page of PalmSprings.com”…and constantly HARPS about the power of “brand”, for you to argue about a $800 renewal is quite honestly humorous.

This PROVES my theory 1000%.

Your tunnel vision has officially taken over, nothing personal, just stating facts. Did you read your reply before posting it?

Verisign has watched “domains” both developed AND undeveloped change peoples lives forever–and the sales prove this statement. Business is Business. Did you really think they were going to just open the flood gates and let the names be hoarded? Premium domains DESERVE premium pricing. (remember our “BRAND” talk). Nebraska.TV is probably going on vacation with the $xxx,xxx they saved when not purchasing the Nebraska.com domain. They will use the same business model and platform–expect “TV” makes a lot more sense for them–same with ANY media company in the landscape. (Not to mention 4x’s the traffic as the .com)

The bottom line is-which is UNDENIABLE,…DOT TV is growing every single day WILL take market share from the .com owners. Don’t believe it? You’ll see. If the premium domain sales were reported (still so humorous they aren’t), the ENTIRE landscape would already be so much different.

99.9% of ALL geo .com owners are drunk off their own kool-aid, and no disrespect intended, but facts are facts–and you guys missed the boat. (just like i missed the .com boat, only my excuse was I was a young boy without a PC). Now some people want to talk about acquiring the “.city” gtld-domain in their respected cities…? How can you EVEN begin thinking of this before owning your DOT TV?!? Now that is FUNNY stuff! Premium pricing is simply Verisign taking a piece of the pie. DOT TV is a developers extension–and with appropriate development, is simply a cost of doing business. Orlando.TV $4,000 per year. WOW! $4,000. On single ad could pay for this domains renewal, period. “ONE”. Same with Jacksonville.TV, if the .com (FTU) is making $xx MILLION per year, what is it worth to them to own this domain? Well, more importantly what will it be worth to abc,nbc,cbs,fox to be “TV” in Jacksonville? I go back to my point, David, as a major Geo holder (w your brother), you should be able to comprehend this situation without problem. At this point however, I’m confident your lack of comprehension is internally motivated.

Again, (beating a dead horse), this is NOT about domaining. It is NOT about traffic. It is NOT about the AC and it’s members. It is about the 1st INTERNATIONAL COMPETITOR to your livelihood, PER MARKET. I’m not saying it will be this month, or even this year–but if you do the thousands of hours of research that I have done, you will find that the interested parties (to .tv), are not domainers, they are BILLION dollar companies that DO NOT care about the .com model.

Just note–for as long as people argue .TV is not REAL and viable, those same individuals are losing credibility by the day. I would NEVER try to impose my personal agendas on others, this is why I speak with FACTS, statistics and emerging technology reports.

Time will prove how “correct” I was in my predictions 14 months ago.

NY
Steve Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 18:28 pm
Guys,

Time to Chill out. It is ok to have an open debate, but it is not necessary to attack anyone on their beliefs/opinions so harshly.

Additionally, this was not a .tv post.

Though I do agree 100% that next year, the GeoDomain Expo should program a panel on ccTLDs, and other extensions as development platforms.

You have to remember that this was the first year AC took on this monster industry called the Geo Domain Industry. It will get better, and did from last years. They simply couldn’t program it all with a 6 week window.

I nominate both of you to sit on the ccTLD panel! J/K
David J Castello Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 18:58 pm
Brian:
The ultimate proof will be in securing your advertisers across your network.

NY:
You are simply too insulting to have a conversation with.
NY Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 18:58 pm
Thanks Steve. Appreciate the nomination…lol.

I didn’t mean to yet again–cause another irruption, but…it is what it is.

This is the exact same reason Boston.TV, Tulsa.TV, Montreal.TV, OceanCity.TV, AtlanticCity.TV, Broadway.TV, WesternAustralia.TV, and *dozens of other successful startups didn’t want to attend the conference. Not to mention Landmark, LinTV and a few other corporations who are heavily invested in DOT TV, who’ve told me personally they weren’t interested in hearing 3 days of success stories from “.com” portfolio holders–none of which own ANY .tv domains. Internet speeds have increased 100% over the past year and this isn’t to adopt/adapt to more text…

*Don’t shoot the messenger.

NY
Brian Berke Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 19:09 pm
“I nominate both of you to sit on the ccTLD panel! :)”

Done
Tim Davids Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 19:43 pm
wow, this is a fun one:) This debate will go on for years.
I wouldn’t go to a dog show and tell them how cool cats are…I would go to see how the breeders are making money breeding “animals”
NY Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 19:51 pm
I’ve been called EVERY name in the book over the past 14 months–and been subject to “personal”, public and *private attacks over DOT TV David. Every month however, my views and predictions have continued to come true. My posts are not personal attacks toward ANYONE in particular David, (I mention this in every post), but it is about BUSINESS–and how many people (yourself included) are imposing “my way or no way” theory and model, and this is simply WRONG.

If you wanted to truly grow the “GEO” space, then the light of our conversations would be much different because you wouldn’t hold *every OTHER tld” in a negative light–nor would everyone continue to ignore and conceal reports, sales, developments, viability, etc…

I’m done posting for 60 days. Sorry you took this so personal, but welcome to my world.

NY
George Pickering Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 19:55 pm
Other .TV without premiums:

StLouis.TV, MyrtleBeach.TV, VirginiaBeach.TV, Raleigh.TV, Newark.TV, WashingtonDC.TV, Sarasota.TV, Greenville.TV, Dayton.TV

$800/yr is nothing for someone who runs a multi-million dollar company.
Elliot Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 20:05 pm
Francois,

The reason I haven’t spent any time writing about what I learned at the conference is that I’ve been busy working on Burbank.com and Lowell.com. I blog because I enjoy it, but bottom line is I need to stay focused on where I will make money and that’s my geo names. I learned a ton of new things and received so much feedback, it’s going to take time to implement everything, and unfortunately, I don’t have time right now to do both. I just launched Burbank.com but have already been working on building a directory that will take things to the next level (I hope). I guess if you really wanted to learn, that was the show you should have attended. Just to reiterate, I’ve never been to any show where people have given so much advice to anyone who wanted to learn.

Regarding .tv and other extensions. If you own the .com, why would you bother to buy other extensions? You can do everything you want on the .com. If you build out PalmSprings.tv, PalmSprings.com will be the recipient of extra traffic that you generate since that’s the dominant brand in the area. What value are you going to bring advertisers that David can’t if he wanted to do it? People may criticize the look of his sites, but I know for a fact that his advertisers are VERY, VERY happy with the business PalmSprings.com brings them. People find PalmSprings.com via type-in and Google search. They find the info that they want and contact local businesses. As Google knows, it’s hard to turn their YouTube eyeballs into dollars. Sure they are attracting people who watch movies, but how much revenue did that traffic generate?

Not only does David and CCIN own the best piece of real estate in Palm Springs, he is the best seller of that real estate. Nobody can compete. Half the reason I outbid David on Secaucus.com was because I knew CCIN would build that into a very high value brand, and I would kick myself for not paying the extra $1k to get the name

I have no problem with any cctld. However, I would rather spend my effort building a brand on the .com that everyone knows and types in automatically now than try to build a brand AND have to explain and remind people they need to go to dot TV (or whatever) rather than the assumed .com. Incidentally, I am sure Boston.tv is great and has super technology, but a Google search for “Boston” yields no Boston.tv results in the first 200.
Frank Rudner Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 20:24 pm
With all do respect….Just don’t get it, why someone is pushing a .tv so hard…if it was that amazing you wouldn’t need to push so hard at something that yet proven solidly as the .com is and has been and will be.

I am a fan of ccTLD’s….but sorry tried have had an open mind to .tv but but just don’t get the benefits beside watching videos…or actually the true benefit to it’s country for local and tourism…that I can understand…they way it’s been pushed, is like working so hard at a relationship that never should have been one.
There is value to it…in a respect of how entertainment/Technology… is/has progressed (think entertainment is .tv’s true value) and other information gets put out and certainly as a ccTLD for it’s country locally and for tourism.

AC and members have the foundation of the net….they promote their tld not push to prove a point….again, ccTLD…hell yeah…big .ca fan here no doubt, but used as a compliment to any .com …eg my OrangeBeach.ca is directed to Canadian Snowbirds yet links into and compliments my local/travel section on OrangeBeach-Alabama.com, and my CarsonCity.ca will be doing thae same soon to my CarsonCity-Nevada.com. (Actually I am surprised how well the hyphen .com names do, guess that’s why BM & CCIN have so many as well as the premiums)

Hope everyone becomes rich, stays healthy to enjoy it, and lives in peace!
Sanchay Kumar Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 20:48 pm
In 1997 Network Solutions started charging $100 per .com registration. Using an inflation calculator that $100 in 1997 would translate into $130.92 in 2007. Isn’t that a ridiculous renewal fee or is it not? SO, what looks high today, people may laugh at but in years to come it will be looked as an opportunity.
David J Castello Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 21:17 pm
NY

I have NEVER insulted you or Brian. Not my style. I learned a long time ago that the secret to making it in this business is to EDUCATE, NEVER INSULT - no matter what the other person says or throws at you.

If you and/or Brian are starting to take attacks on dotTV as personal attacks on youselves - then you both need to seriously listen to what I have to say (and take a month off in French Polynesia).

Believe it or not, in 1998 I was constantly humiliated and ridiculed while trying to sell advertising for our city.coms. Hard to believe, huh? One guy actually called me a loser and told me to get out of his office. And considering that I’m 100% Italian-American and can have a nasty temper, it would have been a pleasure to give those idiots a piece of my mind.

But I never did, instead I smiled and thanked them for their time. And you know what happened? I kept a log of every person I met with in 1998 and I ended up signing over 50% of the same people who laughed in my face.

And here’s something else - I happen to like dotTV! But you guys attack anyone who makes a negative comment like a pack of rabid pit bulls. Don’t attack, simply explain why you disagree. Never ever attack or ridicule to prove your point. No matter what you think about the Geo Expo, anyone can make any comment about anything or anyone without fear of being insulted or ridiculed.

Relax, have fun and educate the masses. If dotTV has the potential you believe it does you’ll win anyway and not burn any bridges along the way. I’ve lost my temper exactly 3 times in the past 12 years. Each of them 100% deserved it (one was lucky I didn’t punch his lights out), but I regretted it every time. None of those 3 will ever be clients of mine and that is too high a price to pay in this business.
Rob Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 21:19 pm
While I think .TV has great potential in the future, it appears to me that the vast majority of the web surfing public has never heard of it. I belong to two CEO groups and a technology group – all non-domainers. Most of our members have no idea .TV even exists. Realistically, .TV may never catch up to .COM as a brand, so type-in traffic will always favor the .COM (at least for the next few years).

Does that give a city.COM a leg up on the competition? Minimal. Most users find what they are looking for via search engines. Moreover, most users don’t care what the domain name or TLD is. They simply want a credible website that will give them the information they need.

Lotus, WordPerfect and Pan American Airways were around before Excel, Word and Southwest. They lost their edge and eventually were bypassed by the better competitor. The same thing can happen to even the most popular city.com if they get complacent and lose their edge.

I’m not a geodomainer as my domain development interests and opportunities lie elsewhere. However, if I were a city.tv owner (or city.anything for that matter), I would be devoting all my energies to creating the best possible geo site(s), getting to the top of the search engines, establishing partnerships, and driving traffic. Once I can demonstrate my site offers the best value proposition to users and advertisers and is at the top of the search engines, I would be going after my competitors’ customers full force (and I would take great joy in dethroning a complacent city.com).

If I was a city.com owner, I would be worried about the forthcoming competitor who has the wherewithal to do this and would start putting all my energies to staying ahead of the competition and keeping my users and customers enamored.

At the end of the day folks, it isn’t about the domain name, the .com, .tv or whatever else comes along. It is about having the best, most credible website that delivers the goods (great content, great traffic, top SEO, happy users, happy customers).

The good news for everybody who wants to play in the geo space — it’s a wide open playing field with amazing growth potential, regardless of who owns what domain name. The winner not be the one with the best domain name, it will be the one who is a cut above the competition.

Start your engines ……….
Brian Berke Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 21:35 pm
Elliot:

You are completely missing the point.

Yes CCIN.com can do anything they want just as MCB.tv can do anything on its sites. We can BOTH successful and one day maybe even more successful working together in some way. You are following “domainer” money. I am following real world media money. I have a much different background and expertise then you have.

There are other metrics other then type in traffic and search rank that determine real world value. Content is the key. You must meet expectation if you are a .TV. It is a powerful brand that companies not domainers are flocking to. For you not to understand that surprises me. Are you saying that Geo .tv’s cannot be successful?

I am not questioning the power of .com, but you must realize there is a reason a visionary like Dr. Hartnett owns 17,000 of them and recently said in regards to the new TLD’s coming: “It is like when AT&T rolled out 30 different calling plans and found that people were so confused with all the choices and chose to do nothing and stay with what they had. ICANN should just keep it simple but they make more money with each new extension so they have chosen to complicate things. My money is on DOT COM and DOT TV…the rest will not hold their value IMHO.”

There is a reason major media companies like the ones listed below use the .TV brand in the Geo space.
ABC Macon
Pappas
Landmark Communications
Linn TV Corp

There is a reason the visionary Michael Castello says “Just as .com is a brand, TV is an accepted brand for information. I believe with the large amount of .tv development that we are seeing, the sky is the limit with its potential. Developers like you will define it. It is probably my second choice in TLDs.”

He sees the possibilities.

IMO it is clear, local video media is the future of all Geo Domains. .Com will be successful in this space, but .TV will be successful as well. In some markets it will be more successful, in some it will be equal and some it will trail in usage. It will come down to content and development but BOTH will be huge. The same way there are 4 major broadcast networks in the US. .Com will be the ABC and .TV will be the NBC, Both will have a clear advantage over their counterparts because of how we see them being used and developed.

I have been talking to major media companies and already turned down one offer to co-develop one of the geo domains in a major us city because I did not feel the network was offering enough.

Can any other non .com or .TV geo owners say this? These people “get it”,

Elliot you seem to be saying .TV has no value in the Geo space. Just to get this on record for posterity sake is this what you are saying? Please clarify the value you see .TV having to get it on the record.

Thanks
Brian Berke Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 21:47 pm
David, please point out in this thread anything I have said that can be defined as “an attack”, not a well thought out debate?
tom Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 22:45 pm
I just reread Ron Jackson’s July cover story about Skip Hoagland. There’s a short paragraph in the story which said:

“The beauty of a .com city domain is that you can deliver ANY KIND OF MEDIA (print, audio and video) on it, an advantage traditional local media outlets cannot match.”

Like Elliot said, if you own the .com, why would you bother to buy other extensions? When the .coms are ready, they will deliver audio and video right on their own .coms!
Elliot Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 22:57 pm
Brian,

Please don’t put words in my mouth or misinterpret what I am saying because I think it’s fairly clear. In case it wasn’t, I will reiterate that I believe it’s tough for any ccltd to compete when the .com is a successful website, and I would ALWAYS 100% of the time prefer a .com to any cctld with the keyword(s) being equal. I would rather pay $250,000 for Burbank.com than $25,000 for Burbank.net any day of the week. To me, it doesn’t make sense to brand a cctld, when I believe visitors will assume your site is a .com, because that’s what they’ve been taught.

If you seem to think I’ve said that .tv has no value in the geo space, you should probably re-read, as I said, “I have no problem with any cctld. However, I would rather spend my effort building a brand on the .com that everyone knows and types in automatically now than try to build a brand AND have to explain and remind people they need to go to dot TV (or whatever) rather than the assumed .com.”

BTW, I don’t care whether I am following domainer money or other money. I am very happy and comfortable with my investments, and I am generating enough revenue to keep me (and my family) comfortable and happy. I would rather be following domainer money than the “smart money” right now, because it seems like we are doing pretty well compared to other sectors.
Elliot Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 23:07 pm
Ok… time to get back to work. This whole thing is distracting and unproductive. I just
re-read the “There is a reason major media companies like the ones listed below use the
.TV brand in the Geo space.” and it reminds me of those pointless .mobi debates. If
people adopt, .TV domains will increase in value - yes I get it. CCTLDs have value, but
they don’t carry the prestige and awareness of .com.

Yes ITT Technical Institute is a fine school, and many graduates will be successful.
However, I believe a degree from RIT will be more impressive to potential employers.
Perhaps you will get where you want with the degree from ITT, but convincing employers to
hire you when the competition is tough will be very difficult.

While the consumer awareness efforts are going on, I will do my best to keep building my
.com assets (Lowell.com, Burbank.com, TropicalBirds.com, WeddingEntertainment.com….etc)
and will hopefully be far ahead.
David J Castello Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 23:31 pm
Brian:

No, you did not engage in any personal attacks on this particular thread about dotTV.
Shaun Pilfold Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 01:00 am
I’m a .com and .ca guy to the core…. it’s what feeds my family, pays the mortgage and puts gas in the car. Yes, I’m a fan of .com and .ca. For those that invest in other extensions, I wish you the best and hope you make big $$$$$ and your sites become money machines.

I’ll stick with what has proven to work for me. Good luck to all.
George Pickering Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 09:04 am
I invest in DOT TV and DOT COM. I was unable to get the DOT COM, so DOT TV is the BEST alternative - which I thought was the original assertion.

To me, it is not about the domain or branding, it is about the content and business model.

Our GEO .TVs will have more than video on them and will have content and features not available on any other local website in that market.
Brian Berke Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 09:21 am
Elliot,

Yes I agree we can both go different directions and be successful.

Here is the thing that cracks me up about lumping in .TV with all other ccTLD’s.

.TV is a worldwide brand that means the same thing in every place on the globe and is being adopted worldwide. It is growing in Asia, Germany, South America, America ETC.

Yes it started as a country code, yes there were premiums, yes there were early marketing mishaps, that’s what threw those people off the scent, but the technology needed to catch up with the extension and it finally has.

The public that learns of it says “Cool, the have a new extension for TV on the Internet”, I have heard this many times. they do not know what a ccTLD is.

IT IS A UNIQUE ANIMAL LIKE NO OTHER. It has provided a great alternative for media companies to get online with a powerful brand that means something.

Elliot, I personally would never invest or develop in any other Geo TLD other then .com OR .TV.

Burbank.net IMO is a poor replacement for Burbank.com, However, Burbank.TV developed is an innovative multi media sight that combines old world and new world media in a way that is revolutionary and makes sense by branding its online presence with “.TV”.

Yes you can do this on a .com but guess what, you do not need the .com to do in an effective way that carries tremendous credibility in a community where major media companies will want to be involved. This is already being proven.

That is why so many media companies that can afford to buy the .com if they wanted them are instead choosing to market the brand that has meant Video worldwide for decades “TV”.

.TV is the real wild card out there and to simply lump it in “just another CCTLD” is a huge mistake IMO.

Look at Hartnett’s track record. At least give the guy some credit.

If you look at the landscape and where this going, you will see a TV is not a CCTLD, but a worldwide brand like no other.

You also seem to think I am saying as a .com guy you need the .TV. Nothing can be further from the truth.

But as a .TV guy who also do not need the .com and many have already showed this in a big way.

Big media is attempting to partner and buy the .TV brand because “TV” ties to their existing business to the net in a way that makes sense for them and they can get can into this space much more affordable way then BRAND themselves.

Skip Hoagland sees this potential. why because he is a savy and smart businessman with a media background. Skip said about .TV on DomainState.com in the infamous “Are Geo Domains Overrated Thread : “I agree these have value as well 100%. Yes we all know .com is King right now, but nothing last forever. Further if these along with every other variation like these .TV are managed and promoted properly anything is possible. These are especially good in the hands and ownership of local TV media since they have the ability to promote to a local audience to type them in for local info.”

In effect Geo .TV is the ideal TLD, to be the cities online affiliate to the the web. That is what these guys in board rooms see and that is why we are seeing this happen.

Elliot do not make the mistake of lumping .TV in with .mobi either. .mobi is a made up brand with no real world track record. It does not mean something to people who have no clue what it stands for. it does not have 50-60 years of real world branding behind it as TV does.

To be clear, Elliot, I have tremendous respect for you and enjoy the debate.
Michael Castello Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 13:56 pm
I think these guys are more clever then we think. They are constantly marketing .TV and we are all joining the party talking about it. Very smart, but we need to stay focused on making money and success on the internet. That is all that matters. I spoke at the GeoExpo that it is not about any extension, city, state, etc but about new world strategies creating wealth on the web. It does not help anyone to keep diverting these threads away from topic.

If anyone has a thought, question or comment that could help everyone across the board then that is what is needed here. Those that attended the GeoExpo got their monies worth and I would encourage anyone that wants to learn, have a great time talking about the future and share what has worked for countless web businesses, please join next year’s conference. I’ve been using computers and the internet for over 20 years and still learning everyday.
JB Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 14:48 pm
Hello,

tv = Tuvalu

So, .tv is a Vanity TLD.

com = commercial

So, .com is for business.

Does this make sense?
not frank shilling Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 22:45 pm
oh wow. video on the internet. what a concept.

I surf to Boston.tv (after typing boston.com) and what do I find? Postage size television built on the demand media platform. Now there’s vision for you.

You .tv guys really fail to grasp a fundamental point. No one needs .tv on their URL to serve up video. And while video is clearly going to become more prevalent on the web, the fundamental reality is that the internet is about a completely different kind of media consumption. of course video will be important, but it will not define it.

to learn more just visit YAWN.tv
james barclay Says:
July 18th, 2008 at 07:04 am
Elliot,

Since you own the .com, why bother with the .tv??? You are right…I understand you are developing oenophiles.com, so I registered oenophiles.tv today which will make a great video site of wine conneseurs talking about their passion for wine, grapes and wine making in general………….it will also include vine growing tips, videos of famous vineyards across the globe, where you will be able to book online tours of these establishments………

But hey no worries right??…No need to secure the .tv that means absolutely nothing to nobody
Tim Davids Says:
July 18th, 2008 at 15:08 pm
oenophilestv.com may still be available…bottom line is as usual in domaining…would you rather open a store on Main street with 5000 people walking past your door each day (without any work on your part) or a store on 59 th ave where you need to stand on the sidewalk with a sign on your back all day
NY Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 00:50 am
(i promised i wouldn’t post for 60 days; sorry SM, please allow this!)

…lol.

TO: (not frank)

…it would probably help in understanding the FACTS before posting.

Boston.TV is NOT built on a DM (me.TV) platform, nice try. But since you felt the need to bring up Boston.com, they felt the need to partner with Boston.TV,…still yawing? What about the several million dollars in VC they’ve turned down…and partnership offers flying off the shelf–I assume this is all non-sense to you.

NO ONE is saying you can not have video on .com domains…we are saying–the FUTURE of the content delivery and branding is here–NOW. DOT TV fits like a glove and BILLION dollar companies have *already adapted *and adopted DOT TV. (and *not .net, .info, .biz, .name, .ws, etc…)

With time, education and development–DOT TV will be the 2nd most sought after TLD on the planet–and will be the “must see–must have” TLD for all major companies around the world.

I sincerely thank everyone for their continued support.

Never Lose Vision.

The media re-invention is here. Soon, complete rich-media sites, packed with pro-HD video, live broadcasting and much more compelling entertainment (instead of long pages of text) slam the Internet–it will be very evident that we are truly at the “next generation of digital and Internet investing–and DEVELOPMENT”. PPC and glorified parking pages are becoming fragile and will soon be a distant memory…

Gorilla Marketing 101.

NY
Cate Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 16:14 pm
Maybe it’s just me - but I tend to spend the majority of my time listening to those that have gone before me in whatever business model I am persuing.

I have spent the last few days hanging around ‘Roblimo” Robin Miller editor-in-chief of linux.com, sourceforge.com, thinkgeek.com - I know nothing about this “stuff” but I can assure you his knowledge/wisdom and willingness to share will be helping me greatly with the development of some of my websites - in his own words he doesn’t ” give a rat’s ass about domain names” it’s about making money - since he has a proven track record of success - I buy him a cup of Joe and perhaps a plate of pasta and just listen and learn. As I’ve been blessed to know a few # of true visionaries - he’s one of those that by the time you’ve figured out what business he’s in - he’s on to the next………….

I look forward to hearing more pearls of wisdom from those that have come before us. When anyone wants my input - they’ll ask and I tend to believe then and only then will their ears be ready/willing to hear.

Sorry I missed the conference but I know I can call on each and every one of you when need be.

Best,

Cate
Elliot Silver Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 18:07 pm
“Since you own the .com, why bother with the .tv??? You are right…I understand you are developing oenophiles.com, so I registered oenophiles.tv today which will make a great video site of wine conneseurs talking about their passion for wine, grapes and wine making in general………….it will also include vine growing tips, videos of famous vineyards across the globe, where you will be able to book online tours of these establishments………
But hey no worries right??…No need to secure the .tv that means absolutely nothing to nobody”

James,

I hope you build a fantastic site with a ton of traffic. Unfortunately, oenophiles is a pretty complicated word to spell, so SEO will be critically important to getting people to your site. I haven’t spent much time researching, but I think it might be more difficult to rank well with a brand new .TV name than it will be for an older .com that is developed with 100% unique content - and video feeds as well.

From a real estate point of view, Oenophiles.tv is like owning an apartment in Brooklyn, while Oenophiles.com is like owning an apartment in Manhattan. Sure Flatbush might be a nice place to live, but it will be more difficult convincing your friends to take the train to Brooklyn on a Saturday night than it will to get them to visit Manhattan. You can arguably have a great time in both places, but what fun is it if your friends aren’t enjoying the fun with you?
Elliot's Blog | Domain Investing News & Commentary Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 18:49 pm
[...] discussion about the Geo Domain Expo turned into a lively discussion/debate about the merits of the .TV extension and developing .TV [...]

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Welcome to the Official Geo Domain Industry Blog. My name is Steve Morales and I am the Founder and CEO of the SimplyGeo.com LLC Network. Our goal is to develop a premier Geo Network for professionals to learn and build their geo domain assets into profitable platforms.

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