I’m A Cybersquatting Victim, And It Sucks!

Posted by Steve under Lawsuits, Legal Articles on Monday, November 30th, 2009 10:52 am

Well, if you stay in this business long enough, it will eventually happen in one way or another. Especially if you deliver services to consumers. Domainers and wanna be entrepreneurs will exploit any avenue to make a dollar, yen, pound, or euro. While I was away, my domain SteveMorales.com expired. I had owned the name for 8 years or so. Unfortunately, I failed to select auto-renew some how at bulkregister.com, although I thought I had. So it is gone now, and boy do I feel foolish. The name is now parked and registered with Fabulous.com.

So I want to share this lesson publicly, so others can learn from this scenario. It took about a month to catch up with things, when I learned that I was no longer the owner of SteveMorales.com. As soon as I found out, I contacted the new owner, a Korean in Seoul, Korea.

Domain stevemorales.com:
Sung Keng Kim
159 Samsungdong Kangnamgu
Seoul, 135731 KR

Administrative contact:
Technical contact:
Billing contact:

Sung Keng Kim
kim.sung.keng@gmail.com
159 Samsungdong Kangnamgu
Seoul, 135731 KR
Phone: +82.822511011
Fax:

Record dates:
Record created on: 2009-07-01 19:12:18 UTC
Record modified on: 2009-07-01 19:12:18 UTC
Record expires on: 2010-07-01 UTC

Nameservers:
ns1.dsredirection.com:
ns2.dsredirection.com:

I figured that we would be able to handle this scenario amlicably. I have listed our communication regarding SteveMorales.com. Keep in mind, my offer for the domain was to start negotiating measures. I have no problem paying a few hundred dollars for my domain.

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Steve Morales <steve@geodomains.com> wrote:

Hi,

I am writing in regards to the domain stevemorales.com. I owned the domain
before it expired while I was at war. I would like to know if you would
please give it back to me for registration cost. I have no problem giving
you $50 for the domain.

I assume you know who I am since you registered the domain and have it
parked. I believe you are a domainer, as I am. If you do not know who I
am, I have listed the following links for your review.

http://dnjournal.com/cover/2008/july.htm
http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/lowdown/2009/dailyposts/20091116.htm

Please help me out and return my domain as I have plans for it. Otherwise,
I will file a UDRP to get the name back. I dont want to do this and would
like to handle this amlicably. Please help me out and return the name.

Thank you,
Best regards,
Steven Morales
Founder/CEO
SimplyGeo.com LLC Network
Mobile: xxx-xxx-xxxx

Sung Keng Kim Response:

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sung Keng Kim” <kim.sung.keng@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 13:52
Subject: Re: SteveMorales.com

Probably will need something close to the udrp filing price to let this go.

My Response:

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steve Morales” <steve@geodomains.com>
Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 15:16
Subject: Re: SteveMorales.com

Sung Keng Kim,

I am sorry that you feel that you have to cybersquat on my name that has took years to establish.

People like you give the domain industry a bad name and it is a shame.

I guess you have no problem being labeled a cybersquatter in the domain community and International Courts.

Have a good day.

Steve Morales

_______________________________________________________________________

As you can imagine, his response infuriated me. Sung Keng Kim made it very clear that he knew who I was and also made it clear that he was cybersquatting on my name by his response.

It is amazing that people like this have to rely on cybersquatting to make money with domains. It is a dam shame. I have a few questions regarding the UDRP procedure.

1. Is it possible to get the cybersquatter to refund any/all legal bills through UDRP?
2. How long does the UDRP procedure take?

Thanks for your assistance.

29 Responses to “I’m A Cybersquatting Victim, And It Sucks!”

Anon Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 11:20 am
You are too funny. You are not a victim of anything.

Are you the producer? Steve morales?
http://www.linkedin.com/in/wahooz

This guy could actually be considered famous, unlike yourself.

Unless you are the ONLY steven morales, you are not a victim of anything. Why should you have the domain more than the next Steven Morales?

He is much more deserving of the domain than you, IMO.

Are you that much more important than the next Steven Morales??
anon Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 11:46 am
You should have emailed the owner saying you were a schoolkid who needed it for a project, I hear that works.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
@Anon.

No need to play games. Straight to the point is the best approach IMO.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
@Anon #2
You make some valid points Anon. I wish you would sign your real name so we know who you really are. Man Up my friend.

While there are “many” Steve Morales’s in the world, I can assure you that Sung Keng Kim is not one of them. The fact that he states he will need a price close to the UDRP filing to let it go, communicates that he knows he is cybersquatting.

This has nothing to do with me being more important than the next Steve Morales, it has everything to do with it being my name and the current owner admitting that he is cybersquatting on stevemorales.com to make a profit. Oh by the way, did I mention I owned it for 8 years.

Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Morgan Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Sorry to hear about this Steve – it is people like this that give Domaining a bad name. I constantly have to explain to people that most of us actually work hard to develop domains into useful websites…it just takes a few guys like this to continue to paint our industry with the “Cybersquatter” brush.

It is time these people grow-up and realize that Cybersquatting isn’t a business model – Domaining is!!

I hope you can get this back without too much of a fight!
Soundly Reasoned Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
“1. Is it possible to get the cybersquatter to refund any/all legal bills through UDRP?” SM

No, the UDRP has no provision for this. You would need to file against him within your district court, which in and of itself is an expensive endeavor.

“2. How long does the UDRP procedure take?” SM

It depends on how many document filings there are between the parties and what sort of schedule the panelist has that you both select. On average probably 6-8 months from start to finish.

It’s a headache to deal with this but it is far less to pay this individual what would be considered just the UDRP filing fee. The one major downside you have here is that your name has not become famous enough to clear that hurdle. He is willing to sell it and you have evidence to that. It would all depend on how you frame your argument.

If it were me I would fight but expect to pay much more in money, time and your own emotions.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
@Morgan

I agree. I do not understand why individuals choose to conduct themselves this way.

Thanks for the support.
Tommy Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
1. The name has value (obviously)
2. You are not the only Steve or the only Morales!
3. The domain has some age.
4. You are not a brand or celebrity and it was available for anyone to register.

If available, would you register JohnSmith.com?

Sounds like a good investment, not cybersquatting.

It is about the same as owning a parked City.com name, but living nowhere close to the city.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
@Soundly Reasoned

Thank you for answering my questions and providing your insight.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 13:04 pm
@Tommy,

If this were 1999, I would have registered JohnSmith.com. Knowing what I know now, if the name dropped and I was able to regsiter it, I would pass.

Your reasoning about a good investment, is slightly off. Domains like Austin.com, Dallas.com, Houston.com, etc are good investments. Buying someone’s popular name just to make a profit is not a good investment these days. Its only a matter of time before you loose the domain through WIPO/UDRP.

That is the problem with many unseasoned domainers, they think everything is fair game. Hence the Domain Industry getting the dirty image of cybersquatting.

There are so many other ways to make money with domains. Anyway, everything will work itself out.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Mark Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 13:09 pm
I think he’s pretty fair. Balls in your court. File the udrp and back the talk with the walk. It’s a dog eat dog world my green friend.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 13:11 pm
@Mark,

Very True.
Alan Dunn Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 13:15 pm
Steve,

Ethically you may be right but this is business and some people have less scrupels than others. You’re assuming the buyer knew who Steve Morales was – maybe he’s just a collector of domains – who knows.

But I agree with the anon about the celebrity part of it. No case can be made for celebrity value here so regardless if the new owners name is Steve Morales or not how can you expect the domain back when even with a UDRP filing you can not show exclusive right to the mark?

I understand your loyalty to the country and commend anyone for going to war however throwing that in your pitch to the owner was like saying — man, I really want it and you need to give me a break.

Why would a non-national of the USA care about you going to the war? IMO, its comparable to you telling me you’re a nun, priest or non-profit that wants a deal on the name. Way toooo many of these emails circulate around to believe or care about any of the sales pitches.

I’m not trying to discredit you here at all but the best approach would have been to use an alias and ask for a price.

a Steve Morales asking for SteveMorales.com – and the price is high – sorry man, you walked right into that one.

I’d love to see you get your name back but I do not think you have any more right to it than the new owner.

What do we tell people when they a let a name drop? Same advice applies here .. should have paid the $7.

Sorry — Peace .. not a hater, fan actually but agree to disagree on this one.
Doug Isenberg Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 13:22 pm
“1. Is it possible to get the cybersquatter to refund any/all legal bills through UDRP?”

No, the only remedies in a UDRP proceeding are to let the current registrant keep the domain name, to order the domain name transferred to the complainant or to order that the domain name be canceled.

“2. How long does the UDRP procedure take?”

I typically tell my clients to expect about two months from the date of filing until a decision is received, although this can vary. (One of my recent cases took about 3.5 months, which I consider very long.)

Doug Isenberg
Attorney at Law: http://www.GigaLawFirm.com
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 13:28 pm
@Alan

Understand. Even if I never get the name back, it is about principal. This is a classic case of one form of cybersquatting, regardless of being famous or not.

There are a variety of ways you can look at this scenario. None of them are wrong, its how the argument is communicated.

Again, I did not have to share this with readers, but I wanted to others to learn from this scenario, good or bad. Unfortuantely, Im the guienea pig.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Tommy Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 13:30 pm
Go to BuyDomains.com and search for ending in “Smith”. The WIPO/UDRPs must be piling up.

The people, places, events, companies, and organizations of Dallas have made it a great city, yet the individual or company that happened to register or acquire Dallas.com gets to profit off of their work and history. Someone named the city, just as your parents named you.

There is a very fine line.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 13:31 pm
@Doug,

Thank you for your response.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 13:37 pm
@Tommy,

Once again your reasoning is off target IMO. We were taking about full names, not surnames. And for full names, the UDRP/WIPOs are piling in case you have not noticed over the years. It is a fine line. It is how you present the argument that determines that fine line my friend.

Either way, I thank you for sharing your perspective.
David J Castello Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 14:35 pm
I know the feeling, Steve, and it does suck. In December 2006 Michael and I were the cover story for DNJournal and Ron Jackson referred to us as the Castello Brothers. As logical as that sounds now we had never considered it before Ron’s story. The SAME day that Ron published the article we received an email from a guy in Staten Island, NYC offering to sell us CastelloBrothers.com and CastelloBros.com for a total of $5,000. I was stunned, but I had to laugh. After all of these years of being called Cybersquatters we were now facing the real thing. This guy made it obvious that he only bought the names because he’d read Ron’s article. He never had any intention of developing them. To make a long story short, I called this guy and he said his Mother was deathly ill, he was broke, etc, etc. He was such a scam artist I was tempted to UDRP him, but I knew there was a chance he’d prevail and then he could ask for any price he wanted. However, he also knew he could lose and was quite aware of the phrase “Bad Intent” when I mentioned it to him. Regardless, we negoitated down to 3K and did the deed.
bonkers Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 14:35 pm
You are playing off another famous company yourself.

http://simplegeo.com/

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/30/simplegeo-funding/

Remember, cybersquatting is always in the eye of beholder.

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

My two cents. Good Luck
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 14:46 pm
@David,

It looks like it is coming to the deed my friend. And it does suck, not too many understand this feeling, as witnessed by the comments.

Its all good.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 14:54 pm
@Bonkers,

I believe you are misinformed. Please take a look at the comments section of this article: http://simplygeo.com/2009/11/22/protect-your-unique-brands/

The CEO of SimpleGeo.com contacted me via the blog explaining how they came up with their brand. The SimplyGeo.com brand existed 2 years before they became a business and techcrunch.com post.

I can assure you the SimplyGeo.com brand is not playing off any company and is in no way cybersquatting. The brand was built from scratch and will continue to grow.

Thank you for your comment.
Adam Strong Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 16:24 pm
This happened to me back in 2001-2002 with a Korean registrant buying adamstrong.com. In my case I moved on, never emailing them and eventually the name was dropped and I picked it up. I didn’t really consider it the same as cybersquatting so I never went after the guy. It’s more of a douchebag move than squatting in my eyes. Same with the CostelloBros.com thing in my eyes.

It’d be interesting to hear about the success stories of “non-famous” people trying to grab “their” domain. Maybe Mr Isenberg or another attorney could tell us more about the chances of success that filing a UDRP in this case. My gut tells me the odds are not in your favor.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 16:28 pm
@Adam,

I would be interested in successful “Nonfamous” cases as well.

Any input from Lawyers out there?
Shawn Yurkanin Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 18:46 pm
Steve,

Call John Berryhill.
(610) 565-5601
john@johnberryhill.com
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 19:41 pm
@Shawn,

Thank you. Left a message. Following up with an email.
JR Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 21:25 pm
Everything you said in the email had a terrible tone. The worse you make the other party feel or underlying threats just makes the price of the domain more.

I think you could have gotten the domain back for a couple hundred bucks had you just been polite and asked what they would like for a fair price.

You were probably heated when you wrote the email but you have to be rational.
Steve Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 21:33 pm
@JR,

You may be correct about how my email was interpreted by the receiver. However, I was not heated at all when I wrote the letter and felt it communicated the message that I was willing to handle this amicably. Your point is valid.

Thank you for sharing it!
pitbullstew Says:
December 4th, 2009 at 19:56 pm
same deal different name…

WHOIS information for wedriveyou.com :

[Querying whois.internic.net]
[Redirected to whois.domainca.com]
[Querying whois.domainca.com]
[whois.domainca.com]
Welcome to KICA, Inc. dba DomainCA.COM’s WHOIS Service

Domain Name: WEDRIVEYOU.COM
Domain Status: REGISTRAR LOCK
Registrar: Korea Information Certificate Authority, Inc. dba DomainCA.com
Referral URL: http://www.DomainCA.com

Registrant:
Jung Hochul
391-2
Suseongdong 3-ga Suseong-gu
Daegu, 706834
KR

Administrative, Technical, Billing Contact:
Jung Hochul ibclub@dreamwiz.com
391-2
Suseongdong 3-ga Suseong-gu
Daegu, 706834
KR
(TEL) +82.115557615, (FAX)

Domain Registration Date….: 2008-10-04 GMT.
Domain Expiration Date……: 2010-10-04 GMT.
Domain Last Updated Date….: 2009-11-14 23:55:27 GMT.

Domain Name Servers in listed order:
NS1.SEDOPARKING.COM
NS2.SEDOPARKING.COM

If a customer is not using our name server, the IP address of
the customer’s name server will not be displayed.

Please register domain name at http://www.DomainCA.com.

Seems this guy is held in ill repute with no sense of shame.

C. Registered and Used in Bad Faith
After the Complainant contacted the Respondent, the Respondent offered to sell the disputed domain name to the Complainant for 3,000 Euros. While the amount offered may not be as egregious as those in some other cases, it is still well in excess of possible out-of-pocket costs and is one indication of bad faith. Beyond that, the Respondent has been on the losing end in prior domain name disputes, and was found to have acted in bad faith. See Club Méditerranée S.A. v. Jung Hochul (a/k/a Hochul Jung), WIPO Case No. D2000-1427 (); Echelon Corporation v. Jung Hochul, WIPO Case No. D2001-0939 (). In the matter, the Respondent claimed to be building a “club medical site”. In the matter, it was noted that the Respondent also held registrations for , , , and . Respondent is either quite an active and diverse entrepreneur, or he is a cybersquatter. Based on the facts before this Panel, the latter seems more probable.

About

Welcome to the Official Geo Domain Industry Blog. My name is Steve Morales and I am the Founder and CEO of the SimplyGeo.com LLC Network. Our goal is to develop a premier Geo Network for professionals to learn and build their geo domain assets into profitable platforms.